[clug-talk] Why is CLUG such a struggle?

[Jesse Kline]

Hmm... maybe I'll check them out sometime and report back to the group.
Shhhhh... don't tell anyone I reside on the left-coast :-).

Jesse

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 7:40 PM, Courtenay Watson <hdsheena at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'm not even really a CLUG member, so maybe I should't write, but I
> hope what I have to say might help someone out so...
> I spent the summer in Calgary. I figured since it was a big city,
> there must be a linux group there, so I found CLUG. I ended up working
> nights and didn't make it to any meetings, but I participated a tiny
> bit on the e-list and have observed/lurked as well.
> When I returned to my hometown in BC, I was linked to the Vancouver
> Ubuntu group. (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CanadianTeam/Vancouver) Anyway,
> although I'm too far to participate personally, I've watched their
> meeting minutes and announcements. They seem to be gaining ~10 new
> members a month, support newbies as well as the "oldies" and have
> events with decent turn-outs. I don't know what they're doing
> differently than other groups, but I'm sure someone there does. And
> I'm sure if you contacted them, they'd be willing to share what has
> made them successful. Anyway, feel free to ignore the whole thing,
> just figured it might help sometime :)
> Courtenay Watson
> Kamloops BC
>
>
> > It's been a few days since this thread was last commented on.  Here's my
> > take.  Sorry, this turned out to be a little longer than I thought....
> >
> > As someone who has been part of the group for 5+ years, I've noticed
> > significant changes in the structure of the group over time.  I've
> > participated in some of those changes, and instigated some.
> >
> > The very reason for CLUG began to disappear about the same time Ubuntu
> > came into existence.  Linux got easy to install.  Ubuntu, Red Hat, SuSE,
> > Mandriva, etc all contributed to this.  As did the countless developers
> > scratching their "itch".  CLUG began to loose focus as there became less
> > of a need for help in getting things set up.
> >
> > Forgive me for using myself as an example, but I do feel this applies to
> > all contributors....  I did my time as president, I took on COSSFEST,
> > PROGSIG is still going, and I'm still involved as a member.  But there
> > does come a time where I think that someone else needs to step up and
> > make things happen.  I do have a life and a business that demands my
> > attention elsewhere, often.  I hit a wall occasionally where I ask
> > myself why I bother with the effort if no one else is going to help out.
> >  Usually at these times, I step back and wait to see if the
> > community/group will fill the gaps.
> >
> > In recent times, I've begun asking myself why I continue with CLUG.  I'm
> > not a novice user, and I can glean what I need from Google for most of
> > the topics we cover.  From a technical perspective, CLUG offers nothing
> > for me anymore.  There is the social aspects of hanging out with friends
> > every month.  But for a group like CLUG, that is not sufficient.  I've
> > noticed that the social conversations have begun to be "more important"
> > than the executive member standing up front trying to carry on the
> > meeting and do planning.  These side conversations drown out anything
> > else for those nearby and are generally very frustrating.  Sure, some of
> > the side conversations are on topic, but some are not and ALL can be
> > done afterwards.  That's my own opinion as a member in the crowd (and
> > guilty of these infractions as well).  Those who are standing at the
> > front of the room are shown a fair amount of disrespect when this
> > happens - IMO.  So, why bother?
> >
> > I'm not trying to be condescending here.  I'm trying to point out that
> > the very nature of CLUG has shifted too far to the social side of
> > things.  And if that is the case, why do we even bother meeting at
> > DeVry?  Why not just move the meetings to the bar and drop the idea of
> > "presentations"?  Do we really need an executive at that point?
> >
> > Anyone visiting us sees this type of interaction and rarely come back.
> > Something has to change, or CLUG becomes irrelevant.
> >
> > I don't have the answers for this problem.  But do have some ideas.
> >
> > Drop the idea of catering to newbies.  Nobody was there to hold my hand
> > as I learned how to use OpenOffice, Inkscape, Thunderbird, etc.  Instead
> > I recall attending discussions on topics that were out of my comfort
> > area, and I was expected to do a little research if the topic was of
> > interest to me.  I was expected to pay attention or get utterly lost.
> > Instead, focus on topics that are of interest to US.  For myself that
> > would be things like making use of Linux for my business.  Configuring
> > an Apache server for virtual hosts, with support for various tools
> > (Trac, Subversion, etc).  Installing applications from scratch
> > (compiling them), and how to get around the issues that come up in doing
> > so under different distro's.  Programming theory - using PHP at the
> > command line, shell scripting with Python, understanding advanced data
> > structures such as self balancing trees and meshes. etc.
> >
> > In short, do what is of interest to those of us who are still around,
> > and drag the newbie kicking and screaming with us.  There is time for
> > the newbies to ask questions and receive mentoring afterwards in the Q&A
> > portion.  Or a workshop can be set up.  Drop the presentations on "why I
> > think distro X is better than distro B" - that doesn't need a
> > presentation does it?  That should be a quick 5 minute conversation -
> > because ultimately that sort of thing comes down to an opinion.
> >
> > We should get back to a structured meeting.  The people attending the
> > meeting should be made to understand that they ARE attending the
> > meeting.  Side conversations should be moved outside, or put aside until
> > after the meeting.  The presenter should NOT have to manage the crowd.
> > We are all adults, and professionals.  We should act like it.  (This
> > goes for me too - I know I'm not a shining example here...)
> >
> > EVERYONE needs to contribute.  I think that anyone attending the regular
> > meetings should expect to be called on to stand up front and give a
> > brief summary of what they've been working on, how they use Linux, etc.
> >  Right up to giving a full presentation.  We can't rely on the usual
> > group of people to step up to fill the dead air.  Sooner or later, those
> > folks will not be available.
> >
> > EVERYONE needs to be objectively critical of the whole structure of
> > CLUG.  The executive has to make choices.  But making choices in a
> > vacuum is non-ideal.  I don't know how many times I've made choices for
> > CLUG or PROGSIG with no input, and no idea if I was making the right
> > choice.  I had no option but to assume "no feedback is good".  And that
> > is a crappy approach.
> >
> > But, the corollary  of the above is that we often MUST make a choice and
> > move on.  I've seen many times where we sit around talking about what we
> > "could do", instead of just doing it.  Once we make a choice, stick with
> > it until there is clear reason to make a change.  Changing things based
> > on what "might" happen in some non-deterministic point in the future is
> > well, stupid and reacting to fear.  We need to have the courage to make
> > a choice and stick to it.
> >
> > My apologies for the "rant", but these are things that go through my
> > head when I think critically of CLUG.  I feel CLUG still has a place,
> > but not the way it is set up at the moment.  Things need to change.  A
> > focus needs to be decided.  Something more firm that "promote Linux and
> > Open Source".  WHY do that?  HOW to do that, etc.  That should be part
> > of the focus.  And that focus dictates all other actions.
> >
> > Either that or we just have a social club for computer geeks.
> >
> > My thoughts, not yours.
> >
> > Shawn
>
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